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MapleTowers' Private Server Policy


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#1 Analogué

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 09:21 PM

MapleTowers' Private Server Policy

The following news post derives from a decision which the current staff members of MapleTowers have been discussing all week. It involves private servers, which I am sure most of you have realised has unfortunately become a common practice amongst MapleStory players.

To sum up this news post briefly, it has been decided that Private Servers will remain a BANNED from being a topic of discussion on MapleTowers. (Although we will be lenient if they are referred to briefly, and negatively.)

In your Character Info sections, it has been decided that you cannot put private server information in it. However we are letting you enter in your private server character name, level and job; we will turn a blind eye to it. However, I reiterate - you must NOT abuse this allowance, you must NOT say it is from a private server, and your job is NOT allowed to be "GM". You also cannot mention the name of the private server, but I would have thought that be obvious by this point.


But they're legal, why this new rule?

From everything we have researched, private servers are NOT legal. Lindsay has invested a reasonable amount of time into researching this. From what we understand about MapleStory private servers, the server code was leaked initially, and all the private servers are derived from that. If this is true, then private servers are illegal no matter what. The only way that private servers are legal is if they are emulators. That is to say, they were derived from their own server code that has no connection to Wiznet, other than the fact that they use the same client to play; this is legal. Emulators take years and many talented people to create. We highly doubt MapleStory Private Servers are emulators, or else they'd be called as such.

Well NXJoe has said it's okay!

We have searched other forums, as well as the main Nexon forums, for proof of this claim. We have not been able to find it. At any rate, just because Nexon does not pursue the removal of Private Servers does not mean they are legal, or even that we would allow discussion of them. Once again, Private Servers are essentially pirated software which removes player usage from Nexon. We highly doubt Nexon is "okay" with the existence of Private Servers, and anyone who thinks that is deluding themselves.

And if we're right, you're wrong?

If eventually it turns out to be this case, then it is still a matter of our discretion. We certainly do not agree with the existence of Private Servers, though we do recognize that it is inevitable we will have members who play on them. For now, if you want to be a part of the MapleTowers community, you should respect our rules regarding this. Even if you think we're wrong, we're sure you'll agree that at least we've come to a reasonable decision, yes? tongue.gif

To Conclude:
  • You may not discuss private servers.
  • You may not name private servers.
  • You may not call yourself a GM in your character info sections, or mention if it comes from a private server.
  • All this also coveys to PMing. We have set up a monitor so that if you so much as mention private servers in your PM's, it will alert us and we will read it! mad.gif We are mostly concerned with advertising, however, so if you're talking to someone you already know on a Private Server about said server, that's fine, within reason. =P


We will give you a week to remove the banned character information, after that we will start removing them ourselves - and issue warns to anyone who is purposely being an asshat about it.

Happy Mapling!

#2 Lindsay

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 07:42 AM

This topic will be moved to the Official Board Rules section at a later date. smile.gif You can, of course, discuss Private Servers within this thread only AS LONG AS it is relevant discussion regarding the rule.

#3 dolphinbomb

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 09:28 AM

rolleyes.gif

For the record, all private servers are based off the OdinMS or TitanMS code (a majority using the former), both of which were created through use of packet sniffing, packet filtering, and reverse engineering. The only difference between them is that Odin is written in Java, and Titan in C++. Both use a MySQL database in conjunction with the server files.

IF the code was leaked, then there would be much better functionality in-game. As it stands, a good number of features are still missing, and many had to be added after OdinMS's initial release. Many things still do not work correctly, or at all.

The only thing that would make any of this illegal is if they were charging people for it's use. At this point in time, the source code is freely available to everyone who wishes to use it.

Edited by dolphinbomb, 08 June 2008 - 09:29 AM.


#4 Lindsay

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 09:34 AM

QUOTE (dolphinbomb @ Jun 8 2008, 02:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The only thing that would make any of this illegal is if they were charging people for it's use. At this point in time, the source code is freely available to everyone who wishes to use it.


If that were the case, the RIAA would have no legal standing when it comes to music downloads, would it? You could just pirate any music, software - whatever you want - from the Internet legally and without any fear of repercussions...as LONG as you weren't charged for it, right? Huh, wonder why they were able to get all those court orders, then, and were actually able to press charges!

Sorry, D-bomb, the law does not work that way just because you want it to.

As for the information on reverse engineering - I am sure packet sniffing and filtering contributed a great deal to Private Servers, as did a good bit of reverse engineering - this is true to all Private Servers. However, it's a large claim to say that absolutely no leaked code played any part, even if the resulting server code is not in the same language, as emulators take a LONG time and a lot of resources. It doesn't have to be the complete code, and I really very much doubt that the complete server code was leaked, but certainly some of it has been.

So of course there will be bugs and missing features. None of the Private Server projects have been around for very long, considering, and even basing their work on the ones that came before, it's quite a claim to say they have been completely reversed engineered.

Of course, if they are indeed completely reverse engineered, far be for me to decry the accomplishments of their programmers. If anything, I commend them, as it shows they are truly talented individuals. Still, our decision still stands not to allow it. We are a legit MapleStory community, and by legit, we mean playing the game as Nexon/Wiznet and the other official companies intended. No cheats, no hacks, no Private Servers.

#5 dolphinbomb

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 11:51 AM

QUOTE (Lindsay @ Jun 8 2008, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If that were the case, the RIAA would have no legal standing when it comes to music downloads, would it? You could just pirate any music, software - whatever you want - from the Internet legally and without any fear of repercussions...as LONG as you weren't charged for it, right? Huh, wonder why they were able to get all those court orders, then, and were actually able to press charges!

Sorry, D-bomb, the law does not work that way just because you want it to.


It's not a simple matter of copyright law. Music and software are the sole property of the company that publishes it. The source code for a computer application does not exactly fall under the same protections afforded to books, movies, music, etc. Even if the private servers today were had some basis off of leaked code, the point is now moot because there is not a scrap of copyrighted code in the private server files. It is, however, recognized as Intellectual Property of Wizet, and is subject to legal action if it's used in any fashion to make a profit.

#6 Theshinji

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 02:06 PM

QUOTE (dolphinbomb @ Jun 8 2008, 09:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
rolleyes.gif

For the record, all private servers are based off the OdinMS or TitanMS code (a majority using the former), both of which were created through use of packet sniffing, packet filtering, and reverse engineering. The only difference between them is that Odin is written in Java, and Titan in C++. Both use a MySQL database in conjunction with the server files.



1) To reverse engineer something as accurately as private servers work, it generally requires stealing large amounts of code from the original source at some point. Given that you've even mentioned yourself several high level methods required to even work on it, I'm pretty sure nexon/wizet/asiasoft/whoever doesn't WANT you to take said code for the stated purpose.

2) While the code itself may not be copyrighted, when you execute it, you DO engage in copyright theft. Note on the nexon website there are several notices that ALL content contained in maple story is copyrighted by nexon/wizet/asiasoft (in more or less every continent these days) No matter who made the private server, or how, they ARE committing copyright theft by using somebody else's Intellectual Property.

Think of my second point this way: Emulators are not illegal, but the Roms you run them on ARE. In the same way, actually having the capability to run one of these servers isn't necessarily illegal, but executing and running one IS.

Edited by Theshinji, 08 June 2008 - 02:19 PM.


#7 Nathan

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 02:20 PM

I don't see what you guys think is so wrong with Private Servers!!! They're not bad!

They're so much funner than regular MapleStory. And you don't waste your money on some crap that goes away!!! It's stupid!

Edited by AsSaSsIn0, 08 June 2008 - 02:21 PM.


#8 ArcaneWolf

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 02:59 PM

QUOTE (AsSaSsIn0 @ Jun 8 2008, 10:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't see what you guys think is so wrong with Private Servers!!! They're not bad!

They're so much funner than regular MapleStory. And you don't waste your money on some crap that goes away!!! It's stupid!


Ok. Listen to me, they are bad, but since I do play them I don't want to be seen as a hypocrite. I have mostly no regard for the law in real life, I made myself my own morals, I have not changed them yet. I go for the greater good WITHOUT sacrifices.
When pertaining to Pservers, they are illegal. TitanMS and OdinMS both originate from the regular MS code, a sorta duh there, since it would take years to create it from scratch, they had to get the base code for it. You sound like countless individuals who say they aren't bad, but whats you reason? They're fun? Well, drugs are fun to, but they are illegal. And by saying its stupid you say most laws are stupid. If it wasn't for those laws, there would be 40 DIFFERENT Coke companies, Nike Companies, Etc, all selling the same thing, but not one being the same in reality. Thats why we have Copyright laws. If you made the item thats selling with your brand name, your the only person, company, or a small group who can sell that brand name.

I support everything the Staff has proposed. It does not faze me since I already thought the word Pserver has brought up a red lag, lol. Going ahead and check some of my recent messages, proof lol

But here is a brighter side of some Pservers. They allow people who work 5/7 days a week, with usually no time to play when they get home, to gain some levels. I tried startling back recently on MS, I sadly say though I didn't have much time to get on, and stay on.

And I'm sorry for advertising my status on a server in a earlier thread.

#9 JoeTang

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 03:02 PM

QUOTE (AsSaSsIn0 @ Jun 8 2008, 09:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't see what you guys think is so wrong with Private Servers!!! They're not bad!


I don't see how you didn't notice the word "illegal" pop up a dozen times.

#10 AgonyMan

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 03:08 PM

QUOTE (AsSaSsIn0 @ Jun 8 2008, 08:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't see what you guys think is so wrong with Private Servers!!! They're not bad!
They're so much funner than regular MapleStory. And you don't waste your money on some crap that goes away!!! It's stupid!

  • Nexon does not require players to pay to play.
  • Wasting money is melting it down or chopping it into pieces in a blender so that it becomes useless. Spending money on items that are ephemeral is unavoidable. Ice cream quickly vanishes, and few would complain that buying ice cream is a waste of money.
  • Maplestory is as fun as the player makes it; the rate of experience doesn't change how much fun one can get from it. Getting to level 200 quickly and easily isn't fun by my standards; you say a greater rate of experience is objectively fun, and you are incorrect.
  • If you wish to know "what you guys think is so wrong with Private Servers!!!" then read the original post. It was posted solely to remove any obfuscation surrounding that concept.

You are allowed to disagree. If you can bring objective proof that satisfies the Administrators enough so that they change their minds, please do. If you wish to complain without any support, please do that silently in your thoughts or to your friends. This policy does not prevent you from playing on private servers; MT does not have that power. This policy exists to prevent discussion of private servers.

Edited by AgonyMan, 08 June 2008 - 03:09 PM.


#11 Sparke

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 03:18 PM

Private servers I bad. I play them. I OWN one. *Actually, I'm quitting MapleStory all together.*

Nate- Just because you think something is fun, that doesn't mean it's not bad, and not illegal.

Edited by FlapJack, 08 June 2008 - 03:26 PM.


#12 Nathan

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 03:26 PM

Well...Think about it...There a pserver for ALMOST EVERY GAME!!! You dont see the admins of WOW taking the WOW pservers off??? Then its not illegal!!

IT would only be illegal if they took them off, not if they actually let these server stay! Im sure all those Asians have a system that can go into all computers with pirated files and destroy them!!!

#13 Sparke

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 03:29 PM

QUOTE (AsSaSsIn0 @ Jun 8 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well...Think about it...There a pserver for ALMOST EVERY GAME!!! You dont see the admins of WOW taking the WOW pservers off??? Then its not illegal!!

IT would only be illegal if they took them off, not if they actually let these server stay! Im sure all those Asians have a system that can go into all computers with pirated files and destroy them!!!

You have the worst logic of anyone I've ever met. I swear to god. They're not doing anything because, well. I don't think they give a crap. I think they'll do something when they start losing a bunch of money.


Not even close, a ton of games don't have private servers. Only the extremely popular ones.

#14 Nathan

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 03:32 PM

Yeah, RUNESCAPE UBER LOLZ!!

But ya most games do Jason, wether there popular or not.

#15 Lina

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 03:43 PM

QUOTE (AsSaSsIn0 @ Jun 8 2008, 10:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
IT would only be illegal if they took them off, not if they actually let these server stay!


Erm...if you do something that's against the law, regardless if anybody is taking any action against you, it's still illegal.

#16 SoullessFire

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 03:44 PM

*sigh*

Nathan, I can't even begin to describe how flawed your logic is. How old *are* you?

Bottom line is - THEY ARE ILLEGAL. READ PROPERLY. There are ALSO huge problems with shutting Pservers down. There are so many of them existing worldwide already, and shutting each and every one of them down would not be worth it. It costs money to track and shut them down, and they simply aren't stealing enough money for companies to care. Another thing - there are so many in the world, and everytime you shut one down, another one will pop up somewhere during that same time. In the end, all they'll be doing is going on a wild goose chase losing tons of money trying to enforce this law.

Do you not know what copyright infringement is? Behold. Pservers break copyright laws. MT is a perfectly legit and law abiding forum and we will not tolerate promotion or advertising of them.

#17 Theshinji

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 04:40 PM

QUOTE (AsSaSsIn0 @ Jun 8 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well...Think about it...There a pserver for ALMOST EVERY GAME!!! You dont see the admins of WOW taking the WOW pservers off??? Then its not illegal!!

IT would only be illegal if they took them off, not if they actually let these server stay! Im sure all those Asians have a system that can go into all computers with pirated files and destroy them!!!


Your example is so horribly flawed it's not even funny.

First off, You're right, to a degree - Blizzard don't give a crap about private servers. Why? Because they've got millions of people who like WoW enough to play the official server and pay 20 dollars/pounds/euros/whatever to actually play the game.

In short, they can afford to lose a little business to pservers, and likely even plan their financial year around the idea that not everyone will play the official server.

Secondly, regardless of whether a company DOES anything about it, it IS illegal to run a private server. Along the way, not only are you stealing code, but imagery and storyline too. No matter how flimsy your argument is, the fact that you believe it to be true doesn't necessarily mean it IS true.

If I robbed a bank, would it be legal if nobody cared enough to prosecute me? If you can seriously say yes, then you need to stop and think before you enter any debate, because you're not qute catching on to what is real and what isn't >_>;

#18 Taliant

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 05:48 PM

Is it safe to assume that discussion of any sort of private server discussion, not just Maple Story private servers, is prohibited? For example, to talk about one's experiences playing an Ragnarok Online private server, or Wow, or whatever other online private servers are in existence.

And uh... would it be wrong to mention certain link partners permit it and maybe direct users to go to a link partner that permits it if they want to discuss private servers? tongue.gif

#19 Lindsay

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 06:06 PM

QUOTE (AsSaSsIn0 @ Jun 8 2008, 08:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well...Think about it...There a pserver for ALMOST EVERY GAME!!! You dont see the admins of WOW taking the WOW pservers off??? Then its not illegal!!

IT would only be illegal if they took them off, not if they actually let these server stay! Im sure all those Asians have a system that can go into all computers with pirated files and destroy them!!!

Back in the day, Blizzard used to aggressively pursue Private Servers, but as someone else said, it got to a point where it just wasn't worth the effort - they have more than enough subscribers. And frankly, WoW's an easy enough game as it is - unless you were looking to have some unique mechanic rules or just couldn't afford it, I don't see why you'd want to play on one.

And WoW's PServers are definitely stolen code, btw. There were PServers that were out before the game even launched, which was partly why Blizzard used to be very, very aggressive about it. But even in a blatant case of code stealing, at one point Blizzard goes, "Is it even worth going after them?" The answer is no. =P

That does not, however, mean they aren't illegal.

QUOTE (Taliant @ Jun 8 2008, 10:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is it safe to assume that discussion of any sort of private server discussion, not just Maple Story private servers, is prohibited? For example, to talk about one's experiences playing an Ragnarok Online private server, or Wow, or whatever other online private servers are in existence.

And uh... would it be wrong to mention certain link partners permit it and maybe direct users to go to a link partner that permits it if they want to discuss private servers? tongue.gif

The only thing I'd allow are cases where it's definitely, without a doubt, an emulator that is a complete work of its own. In the case of Ragnarok, they definitely had leaked code, as well as WoW, so no, no discussion there, please.

SWG, EQ, DAoC, L2 and UO are all true emulators, so I personally don't mind if you discuss them.

#20 Analogué

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Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:00 PM

QUOTE (Taliant @ Jun 8 2008, 05:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And uh... would it be wrong to mention certain link partners permit it and maybe direct users to go to a link partner that permits it if they want to discuss private servers? tongue.gif


No no! By all means, this is the thread to mention these things!

We want to be 100% soundproof in our PS policy, so please do say if there is anything that would counter-balance our argument!




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